Curse

Evilsod · Aug 14, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Yeah Incendiary Arrows is a really crap skill. It just doesn't last long enough to be effective in anything but a 'Fragility Spike' RA build.

Its a shame they can't bring in a non-elite Practiced Stance that just makes them last longer (although who gives a shit about the lower recharge time anyway?).

mooshee · Aug 15, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Your attribute layouts are horrible.

Please learn how to maximize and fix your guide.

Sha Noran · Aug 15, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Hey, cool. People are posting here again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneale.

Not a bad guide there, Sha. IMO the new school trapping build kinda sucks. The main trapping places (for me anyway) are usually UW, Trolls or Minotaurs. Using trapper's focus is a waste of an elite cause most of these times they can still interrupt you with savage slashes, and with minotaurs theres no point running into action anyway as you'll just get maimed. Heck, even Escape is better than trapper's focus. I for one would find no use for this build, and this elite skill.

Thanks. :-D

Your points are all valid, and I actually completely agree with you in the situations in which you're mentioning. However, you fail to realize that I'm not talking about Trapping on a Trapping team or Solo, i.e. UW/Trolls/Minos/Etc. The "New School Trapping Build" is primarily for use in groups where you'll be Trapping as part of a balanced PvE team, as all these builds are primarily designed for. There sure are a lot of people who see no use for Trapper's Focus it seems; I guess that's fine, it's your loss. It's really quite a great skill in many situations, and I think the primary problem is misunderstanding regarding when/where to use it.

To answer the last few people commenting regarding Barrage: It isn't the worst elite by far, but a huge problem with a great number of the Ranger's in today's GW population is that its all they ever use. There are a number of places in the game where that is absolutely the #1 Ranger elite to bring along, but in many, many situations its just not worth it at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Yeah Incendiary Arrows is a really crap skill. It just doesn't last long enough to be effective in anything but a 'Fragility Spike' RA build.

Its a shame they can't bring in a non-elite Practiced Stance that just makes them last longer (although who gives a shit about the lower recharge time anyway?).

The first part of your post is completely accurate; its worthless for anything but Frag gimmicks, and even then... not so much.

However, regarding a non-elite Practiced Stance, I have to say that would be horribly game breaking in the current HA environment. PS/CG is already awfully powerful in the right hands, and giving teams the ability to run a build with Incindiary, non-elite PS and Choking Gas would make shutdown a bit too easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooshee

Your attribute layouts are horrible.

Please learn how to maximize and fix your guide.

Actually the only changes that you would make to "maximize" would be to change Expertise from 10 to 9, and Wilderness from 12 to 13. One or two additional points in Kindle and the extra second or so on Storm Chaser isn't enough to really bother me, since I prefer to have my attribute points looking nice and even at 10/12/14. Change that yourself if you like, but it makes very little difference.

Solvi · Aug 16, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

I was playing around with the "New School Trapper Build" a little today. I have never been too successful with combat trapping (pve) until i brought mantra of resolve. I cant remeber what i placed my insperation attbs at but i had it jacked up enough to give me 70 seconds of uniterupted trapping...sure it got striped a couple of times but i just used WD to help me through and reapplied.

Troll
Dust
Barbed
Spiked
Flame
Vipers
Mantra of Resolve
Whirling Defense

I just went with henchies but if i was with a Real group i would have dropped vipers for a rez....It worked great. Took melee and casters out no problem. Any pros or cons on this build people have thought of?

Amy Awien · Aug 16, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Running your build {Bow & Beast} in that way would indeed do quite a bit of substantial damage, but not for long. With 12 in Mark as you stated and probably a good deal (15? 16?) points in BM, you don't have much left for Expertise, leaving you low on Energy very quickly.

You just have to move away from the idea that one must have 15 or 16 in one attribute to become effective. It is quite easy to distibrute your attribute point and get Expertise at 13, Beastmastery at 13 and Marksmanship at 12.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Don't mean to be bumping my own stuff here, but could I get some feedback regarding that last addition of the Expertise breakpoints?

You forgot 12 as a breakpoint for E10 skills, a line like

"12 Expertise: This is the next level of Expertise after 9 that is best if your build is primarily 10 Energy skills."

could be inserted after the 10 expertise line and the 14 expertise line could then be changed to

"14 Expertise: This is the next level of Expertise after 12 that is best if your build is primarily 10 Energy skills."

Quote:

If that was the only thing you guys felt kept it from being sticky-able (hmm I doubt that's a word) then....

You've obviously put a lot of work into it, and you deserve credit for that. But one problem is that your guide is, I think, too strongly worded to become "stickyable".

And more importantly it contains misinformation, and it appears you've put those in to convince the reader of your point of view. You write for example:

Quote:

Otyugh's Cry: This shout might be nice if ALL the wild animals in the game weren't level FIVE. Completely worthless

while leave out the +20AL to all animals part. That is a deliberate omission intended to influence the readers opinion of that specific skill.

In my opinion your 'guide' should not be stickied as long as it contains such misinformation.

Enko · Aug 16, 2006, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Just made a ranger and read through the thread. Lots of good information to set the foundation of what I should look for when setting my ranger up.

Just a couple of things I wanted to comment on that I read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvC

However henchies will not attack the enemy for you. They also take a few seconds to get into full offensive mode.

You can get the henchies to attack and take agro for you. If you get your agro bubble up close to the enemy mob and hold down control and call targets, henchies will immediately agro on the called target. They'll stay on that target until it is dead or you call another target so you can set them to attack the monk while you interrupt their ele. Once the target is dead, they'll tend to go back to attacking whatever they want. Henchies will continue to do their class jobs so monks will still heal while throwing in the occasional attack, mesmers will still interrupt, etc etc.
If you get ambushed somehow because you weren't paying attention, yes the henchies take a few seconds to start attacking but if you call targets, they will start attacking immediately. When I'm with henchies, I pretty much play with the control button held down. If you're playing with a mixed team of henchies and humans, it gets kind of wierd since the henchies switch between who they follow.
I team with henchies almost all of the time since I hate waiting while the team is built and we wait for monks. Since I've gone through almost all of Prophecies and most of Factions with just henchies, you get used to what type of actions they do. As an ele, I can't take the point agro so sending in the henchies first pretty much does the trick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnightmythx

Guys I feel I have to remind you that in GW, Rangers like yourselves make up but about 5-10% of the entire Ranger population in GW. Most people that set out to play Rangers do it because they see characters like Aragon/ Legolas in LOTR, and are inspired by the charisma and glamor associated with the Ranger class. Very few of us set out to master the Ranger in the kind of in-depth knowledge and experience that has been written here.

In LotR, Legolas is not a ranger. He is just an elf. Aragorn is the ranger.

Looking at some of your screenshots of the age and experience of some of your rangers makes me realize that I play too much . ..

Huntmaster · Aug 16, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enko

In LotR, Legolas is not a ranger. He is just an elf. Aragorn is the ranger.

Legolas is the generic archer, though, and Aragorn barely uses his bow. The gw 'ranger' mostly uses and focuses on the bow.

Enko · Aug 16, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntmaster

Legolas is the generic archer, though, and Aragorn barely uses his bow. The gw 'ranger' mostly uses and focuses on the bow.

Definition of a Ranger.

1. A wanderer; a rover.
2. A member of an armed troop employed in patrolling a specific region.
3. A warden employed to maintain and protect a natural area, such as a forest or park.

A bow is not what defines a ranger. A ranger is someone who "ranges" over an area. A lot of people get it mixed up now because of D&D games where an archer was a ranger primarily. People have now come to associate a bow with a ranger and that's not right. You can see this in Guild Wars too as there are plenty of rangers who don't use bows.

Huntmaster · Aug 17, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

The bow is what defines the ranger in GUILDWARS.

What other class' main (Sorry, default/standard) source of damage is the bow, hmm?

I mean, if you want to get technical;
Mes·mer Audio pronunciation of "mesmer" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mzmr, ms-), Franz or Friedrich Anton 1734-1815.

Austrian physician who sought to treat disease through animal magnetism, an early therapeutic application of hypnotism.

I don't think our mesmers are a man treating diseases by using animal magnetism.. (And thats the only entry i could find anywhere, so ;o )

mooshee · Aug 17, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Actually the only changes that you would make to "maximize" would be to change Expertise from 10 to 9, and Wilderness from 12 to 13. One or two additional points in Kindle and the extra second or so on Storm Chaser isn't enough to really bother me, since I prefer to have my attribute points looking nice and even at 10/12/14. Change that yourself if you like, but it makes very little difference.

Take a look at this one for example--

Expertise: 9+1
Wilderness Survival: 9+3
Marksmanship: 12+1+1

The wilderness survival has a superior rune, but max of that is 12. The marksmanship has a minor rune, but it goes up to 14. Why not use a major rune on marks, minor on wilderness, get the same stats, and have more health? 40 health is a lot.....

XvArchonvX · Aug 17, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I think if Sha wants this to be stickied and wants to know what needs to be changed to it changed to such, the best thing to do is to go to www.guildwiki.org and start reading up a bit more. This would be not so much for the knowledge it has, but more so that he could see how GuildWiki presents it's material in a more objective manner. One aspect that makes it that way is that it tries to convey information that comes from multiple sources so that instead of seeing a statement like "I think you should use this skill instead of that skill because blah blah blah" there are statements like this "Most tend to use this skill instead of that skill because blah blah blah".

Sha Noran · Aug 18, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

If its not being stickied because of the way its written, then I no longer care about it being stickied. This isn't a "go ahead and try Incindiary Arrows to find out why it blows" its a "this skill blows, don't use it" thread. If you don't like it, I'm having trouble caring. I'm trying to help teach people what to use, not suggest lightly what they might consider doing.

"Most people tend to belive that racsim is bad because it suppresses certain groups of people, but you can make up you're own mind Timmy. ^____^ "

Or not.

Solvi: Mantra of Resolve works, but if you end up taking heavy agro you'll have trouble with your energy. Also, in PvE, Resolve limits you to Mesmer secondary, shutting off you're ability to bring a hard rez.

Solvi · Aug 18, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Solvi: Mantra of Resolve works, but if you end up taking heavy agro you'll have trouble with your energy. Also, in PvE, Resolve limits you to Mesmer secondary, shutting off you're ability to bring a hard rez.

That is why I brought whirling defense as well.
When i tested it out my henchies only died once and the when that was left...(mesmer)...rezzed teh rest for me. if i was in a group i would drop the vipers for a rez sig and then rez the monk (or who ever had a constant rez).

QuixotesGhost · Aug 18, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

I'll throw in my own personal ranger build, which is quite simply the funnest build I've ever played in PvE. I also think it makes quite an arguement for Oath Shot on a PvE ranger. I've had a ton of sucess with it but I've not seen a single other person running it.

I present the ta-da!

Choking Gas Interupter/ Oath Shot Trapper Ranger!

AKA

QG's Kitchen Sink Ranger (becuase he brings everything but....)

Ranger/x

Expertise - 11+3+1 = 15
Wilderness Survival - 11+3 = 14
Markmanship - 8+1 = 9

Lightning Reflexes
Choking Gas
Serpent's Quickness
Oath Shot {Elite}
Throw Dirt
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Dust Trap

Just to explain right off. I switch on Serpents to Oath Shot for a ~17 second recharge. When I'm pulling I'll drop down a single set of traps to pull through or flip on Serpent's and double up traps against a tough group. Then once the melee is joined I have 3 different modes this build can operate in.

Combat Trapper - I'll run on in under Lightning Reflexes, find the juiciest clump of guys, throw dirt against the nearest guy to ensure my success and lay barbed, flame, dust under him. Watch as the lot of them run around on fire,blind,bleeding, and crippled then go Serpents, and Oath Shot the nearest guy in the back and proceed on to my next victim.

AoE Interupter - Start with Lightning Reflexes for the attack speed boost, Prep Choking Gas, find the nearest clump of spell casters and make sure they don't get off a single spell. When Choking Gas runs down Serpents ---> Oath. Rinse and repeat.

Mass Blinds - Run around protected by Lightning Refelexes throw dirt one guy, dust trap another (or a group of em), Serpent's ----> Oath, and everybody is blind, yay! I find this pretty useful against big ranger groups, like the Shadow Rangers in Fissure, or the Avicara Fierce groups in Mineral springs.

I'll normally mix and match these play styles for a single fight. As in... I'll be happily holding down a group of eles then see a friendly caster screaming past me with a enemy warrior on his tail and think "that man needs my help!" The Dual Superiors generally aren't a problem becuase I'm perpetually stanced up and throwing out a ton of blinds and interupts.

Anyone else do this? Oath to recharge Choking Gas AND Traps? Which I personally think are two best things a ranger can bring in PvE.

sky the unstopable · Aug 18, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

guide was nice, although i rarely use anything but barrage in PvE. i happen to use a flat bow some times (i switch between the dracom vamp flat and elsywths vamp recurve) and you say in your guide that hunters shot isint good because enemys are never moving then why isint flat bow the best? and i love suicide bows jus cause they are fun to say you have (15% -1, 5:1). ty for the guide very long and well thought out.

Sha Noran · Aug 18, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky the unstopable

guide was nice, although i rarely use anything but barrage in PvE. i happen to use a flat bow some times (i switch between the dracom vamp flat and elsywths vamp recurve) and you say in your guide that hunters shot isint good because enemys are never moving then why isint flat bow the best? and i love suicide bows jus cause they are fun to say you have (15% -1, 5:1). ty for the guide very long and well thought out.

Thanks. You make a decent observation regarding my contradiction between Flatbows and Hunter's Shot, but the problem with the pair is that both are unreliable; they may both work occassionally to their full potential but neither will really give you better performance over other skills.

QuixotesGhost: I suppose you're build is actually alright, but it seems to me that you aren't doing as much as you could be if you just focused on one of the two halves of your builds (Choking or Traps).

SnipiousMax · Aug 18, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

<snip>....Hunter's Shot...<snip>

To be honest, the reason I've used Hunter's shot in the past, and will continue to use it in the future is because it is a spammable +damage skill with the chance of a secondary effect that only costs five energy. So I don't agree that it's unreliable simply because the secondary effect doesn't always take effect.

Sha Noran · Aug 18, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Fair enough, but you can get much better damage elsewhere. You only have 8 skill slots to work with, and there isn't room to toss in skills that are ok.

SnipiousMax · Aug 18, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Fair enough, but you can get much better damage elsewhere.

Very true... But few if any of them cost only five energy.

Evilsod · Aug 18, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

May i suggest you delete your sad excuse for a Bunny Thumper now? Its beyond crap...

Thumper Bunny Build
-Distracting Blow
-Irresistable Blow
-Backbreaker {E} OR Shove {E}
-Crushing Blow
-Tiger's Fury
-Troll Unguent
-Storm Chaser
-Savage Shot

Distracting Blow... ok.
Irresistable Blow... ok.
Backbreaker? By the time you've hit an enemy with Backbreaker they are dead, by the time they've recovered from the 4 second knockdown, they are dead. Its a PvP Hammer warrior skill, not a bunny thumper. Shove... i guess this 1 could be useful.
Crushing Blow...ok.
Tigers Fury...ok
Troll Unguent and Storm Chaser? The point of the bunny thumper is the pet doing additional damage. Enemies don't even flee in PvE and is an unreliable energy management. Not to mention your running 4 attribute lines now, 5 if the last 1 has any power behind it.
Savage Shot? Wtf? This isn't a touch ranger farming build. If you *must* carry a bow interrupt, why is it not Distracting Shot?

Please delete this poor excuse for a build asap...

Where are the more up-to-date builds? Touch Ranger? Yes they do work in PvE. Choking Gas interrupter? I've found that build invaluable when it comes to killing Rotscale.

Do you ever get tired of forcing your opinion onto others? Longbows are not the best bow in the game, nor will they ever be. Hornbows are perfect Barrage bows whether your willing to allow 'nooby' rangers to see that or not.